The U.S. military is planning to intercept a flagged North Korean ship suspected of proliferating weapons material in violation of a U.N. Security Council resolution passed last Friday, FOX News has learned.
The USS John McCain, a navy destroyer, will intercept the ship Kang Nam as soon as it leaves the vicinity off the coast of China, according to a senior U.S. defense official. The order to inderdict has not been given yet, but the ship is getting into position.
The ship left a port in North Korea Wednesday and appears to be heading toward Singapore, according to a senior U.S. military source. The vessel, which the military has been tracking since its departure, could be carrying weaponry, missile parts or nuclear materials, a violation of U.N. Resolution 1874, which put sanctions in place against Pyongyang.
The USS McCain was involved in an incident with a Chinese sub last Friday - near Subic Bay off the Philippines.
The Chinese sub was shadowing the destroyer when it hit the underwater sonar array that the USS McCain was towing behind it.
Were you really expecting a single old man to intercept a ship?
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If they do intercept the other ship and Kim gets all butt-hurt we may very well find out if they have nukes.
He's crazy enough to fire one off just as a show of force.
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Shows how much damage a weak president can do to the world. N. Korea has done more missile testing and destabilizing in the first few months of Obama's presidency than he did in years of GWB.... He didn't dare do all this bullshit with a president that carried a big stick and wasn't afraid to use it.
Originally Posted by carfreak67[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If they do intercept the other ship and Kim gets all butt-hurt we may very well find out if they have nukes.
He's crazy enough to fire one off just as a show of force.
We know they don't have any nukes other than the duds they detonated underground. They certainly don't have the means to deliver one outside of their own borders short of driving a truck into south korea and detonating it. The most likely scenario is that he shells the shit out of South Korea, but that would certainly mean the end of his regime.
The most likely scenario is that he shells the shit out of South Korea, but that would certainly mean the end of his regime.
Would it really? Israel has been getting shelled for years and Obama is acting like they are the bad guys and the people doing the shelling are the victms. Most likely the UN would issue very stern resolutions and Obama would ask Kim for a face to face talk and see what it would take for him to behave. Maybe Obama would do more if American forces got hit during the shelling.
Or he could say they deserved it for being occupiers in South Korea... Who knows?
Would it really? Israel has been getting shelled for years and Obama is acting like they are the bad guys and the people doing the shelling are the victms. Most likely the UN would issue very stern resolutions and Obama would ask Kim for a face to face talk and see what it would take for him to behave. Maybe Obama would do more if American forces got hit during the shelling.
Or he could say they deserved it for being occupiers in South Korea... Who knows?
That's not really a fair comparison. First of all, Israel is perfectly capable of taking offensive action on its own against Hezbollah, Hamas, any Palestinian militants, etc. If Iran attacked Israel, Obama would certainly intervene. Secondly, rocket/mortar attacks on Israel rarely claim Israeli lives. That doesn't justify it, but it is a very sensitive political issue and Israel has to consider the cost/benefit very carefully when it takes action against Palestinians. The United States won't help Israel militarily because, as I said, Israel doesn't need our help and it would do a lot of damage to us politically in the region. We don't have that problem with North Korea, and any shelling by KJ of Seoul has the potential to kill thousands of civilians or more depending on how heavythe shelling is. I think it's all but guaranteed that Obama would do something if NK attacked SK. Japan would probably step in as well.
Shows how much damage a weak president can do to the world. N. Korea has done more missile testing and destabilizing in the first few months of Obama's presidency than he did in years of GWB.... He didn't dare do all this bullshit with a president that carried a big stick and wasn't afraid to use it.
Oh... you mean when Dubya precipitated the problem of Korea re-instituting the nuclear and missile programs by rattling sabres, then flipped over and said, "Okay we'll do what Clinton was doing, and return to status quo."? Yes, Bush was incredibly decisive in creating that little set of problems. And, I suppose firing a missile or three at Japan and detonating a couple nuclear test devices while Dubya was Presidenting is.. what?
Putting to bed your idea that they've been agitating more with Obama. That's what. Seriously, there were more atomic tests by non-friendly nations during Bush's administrations than basically any time since before Kennedy. They're agitating now because they CAN and it's opportune.
Anyhow,
- N Korea is NOT Israel, and the comparison doesn't even float because,
- N Korea has nuclear capacity, S Korea hasn't. Finally,
- Kim Jong Il has done this kind of thing around every US Presidential change since GHW Bush took the reigns.
That's not really a fair comparison. First of all, Israel is perfectly capable of taking offensive action on its own against Hezbollah, Hamas, any Palestinian militants, etc. If Iran attacked Israel, Obama would certainly intervene. Secondly, rocket/mortar attacks on Israel rarely claim Israeli lives. That doesn't justify it, but it is a very sensitive political issue and Israel has to consider the cost/benefit very carefully when it takes action against Palestinians. The United States won't help Israel militarily because, as I said, Israel doesn't need our help and it would do a lot of damage to us politically in the region. We don't have that problem with North Korea, and any shelling by KJ of Seoul has the potential to kill thousands of civilians or more depending on how heavythe shelling is. I think it's all but guaranteed that Obama would do something if NK attacked SK. Japan would probably step in as well.
What do you mean Israel doesn't need our help? They still have a place on the map because of the consistent financial support from the Israeli Lobbyists in the US. You think the money from their trade ports and tourism capable of supporting their military?
Originally Posted by Serg Zone[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
What do you mean Israel doesn't need our help? They still have a place on the map because of the consistent financial support from the Israeli Lobbyists in the US. You think the money from their trade ports and tourism capable of supporting their military?
yes thnx for the lesson I'm aware that we sell plenty of weapons to Israel. I'm talking about going to war on behalf of Israel because they can't defend themselves, as someone brought up why we don't help them fight the Palestinians. I thought the answer was obvious.
Oh... you mean when Dubya precipitated the problem of Korea re-instituting the nuclear and missile programs by rattling sabres, then flipped over and said, "Okay we'll do what Clinton was doing, and return to status quo."? Yes, Bush was incredibly decisive in creating that little set of problems. And, I suppose firing a missile or three at Japan and detonating a couple nuclear test devices while Dubya was Presidenting is.. what?
Putting to bed your idea that they've been agitating more with Obama. That's what. Seriously, there were more atomic tests by non-friendly nations during Bush's administrations than basically any time since before Kennedy. They're agitating now because they CAN and it's opportune.
Anyhow,
- N Korea is NOT Israel, and the comparison doesn't even float because,
- N Korea has nuclear capacity, S Korea hasn't. Finally,
- Kim Jong Il has done this kind of thing around every US Presidential change since GHW Bush took the reigns.
Wait.. You mean "re-instituting" a program he conned Wild Willy into thinking he had stopped? Or how the Clinton administration claimed North Korea didn't have a ballistic missile program only to see them shoot a missile over Japan a week later?
Thanks for proving my point because ever since Obama took office, North Korea has performed an underground blast:
And now is making the US scramble to protect Hawaii from a missile strike. All this in less than 6 months in office. The pot-belly bully has zeroed-in on a weakling and is doing all he can to win rewards out of this temper tantrum because he has seen how eager Obama is to talk and provide incentives to thugs as long as they make a fuss in their neighborhood.
First: He'd be doing this even if it was McCain in office, don't kid yourself.
Second: They tested a nuclear device in [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register].
Third: After the US managed to set up an [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] you might call that provocative.
Finally: If you have no choice but to take someone at their word, and about 10,000 miles separate you and your adversary... you're liable to get hoodwinked. It happened to Dubya a few times too.
Oh BTW, Short range is within the peninsula, and they were testing those missiles in the early 80's... They've had [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] (pdf link) technology since the late 70's.
Look, I'm not saying they're not a threat, and that someone has to deal with them (preferably China, they're N Korea's only trading partner, and are the best equipped and situated to do so). I'm saying they've been agitating for ages, through all Presidencies since Ike Eisenhower, so basically you're saying they've zeroed in on a weakling, well, I guess Reagan, both Bushes and Ike were weak too then.
Last edited by Kmikl; 06-20-2009 at 03:18 PM.
Reason: Fixed thread to threat :D
Look, I'm not saying they're not a thread, and that someone has to deal with them (preferably China, they're N Korea's only trading partner, and are the best equipped and situated to do so). I'm saying they've been agitating for ages, through all Presidencies since Ike Eisenhower, so basically you're saying they've zeroed in on a weakling, well, I guess Reagan, both Bushes and Ike were weak too then.
Come on you can't be serious. Nuclear weapons changes the game, especially given what a proliferation risk that NK is. Need I remind you of the Syrian reactor that the Israelis had to blow up that NK was helping to build? Throughout all those presidents that you listed, north korea has never been a threat to anyone but it's next door neighbors. Now they are developing nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles, and KJI is being more aggressive than he has hever been. The game is changing, and he has gotten more crazy since Obama came into office. Maybe it's because of his recent stroke, maybe its because he views OBama as weak, or maybe it's something else, certainly none of us know for sure, but the facts remain the same.
N Korea hasn't built a long-range BM that is worth a damn yet. Their devices are still limited in the Kilo-ton range (last I read anyhow, I'm likely out of date on that)... They're still a threat to S Korea and China primarily, I'll be mightily surprised if they manage to fire a missile and it makes half the distance to Guam, much less Hawaii... they haven't managed to get it done yet with precision. As far as proliferation: they got their technology primarily from Pakistan, and seems that no-one has decided to do anything about them. The other thing is that you don't just decide you're going to do tests and next week you do them... it takes a long time to set up both the missile and nuclear device tests considering both of these items aren't being manufactured in large quantities just yet. Last I read (in the PDF link) I seem to remember reading that each unit takes a little over 18 months to manufacture to test tolerance.
The other thing is, I'm not entirely sure that it's Kim Jong-il at the helm anymore... I didn't know he had a stroke, but it's still up in the air as to who is actually running the country.
N Korea hasn't built a long-range BM that is worth a damn yet. Their devices are still limited in the Kilo-ton range (last I read anyhow, I'm likely out of date on that)... They're still a threat to S Korea and China primarily, I'll be mightily surprised if they manage to fire a missile and it makes half the distance to Guam, much less Hawaii... they haven't managed to get it done yet with precision. As far as proliferation: they got their technology primarily from Pakistan, and seems that no-one has decided to do anything about them. The other thing is that you don't just decide you're going to do tests and next week you do them... it takes a long time to set up both the missile and nuclear device tests considering both of these items aren't being manufactured in large quantities just yet. Last I read (in the PDF link) I seem to remember reading that each unit takes a little over 18 months to manufacture to test tolerance.
The other thing is, I'm not entirely sure that it's Kim Jong-il at the helm anymore... I didn't know he had a stroke, but it's still up in the air as to who is actually running the country.
So we should do nothing until they have functioning long range missiles armed with nuclear warheads that they can export?
And by the way, they already have hundreds of mobile short and medium range ballistic missiles capable of hitting deep inside South Korea and the Japanese mainland. So our closes allies don't take too kindly to your approach either.
And yes, Pakistan is (was) a huge proliferation risk because of their crazy nuclear scientist. But their leaders in control of the nuclear weapons are dependent on the west and not nearly as crazy as KJI, so proliferating nukes is not in their best interests - they have nothing to gain from it.
The Chinese do not have as much of a vested interest as you think - in fact, the Chinese are more than happy to let NK keep the U.S. in fits as long as it doesn't start a war. But what makes you think China will step in in time to prevent a war? Are we really going to rely on the Chinese to do what is in our best interests?
So we should do nothing until they have functioning long range missiles armed with nuclear warheads that they can export?
I never said that.
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And by the way, they already have hundreds of mobile short and medium range ballistic missiles capable of hitting deep inside South Korea and the Japanese mainland. So our closes allies don't take too kindly to your approach either.
Certainly, however, if they were intent on moving against S Korea, they would have done so en masse already. If there was serious production happening they would have tested a lot more of the missiles and there would be evidence of ramped up production. Right now, there hasn't been any come forth. They've been buying most of their war material from China, and even then, the Chinese are far from stupid because they're not selling them the long-range tooling (because they wouldn't want anyone else deciding to de-normalize relations). They're a wild-card, but if China gets enough pressure to do something about them, I believe they will out of financial and security prudence.
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And yes, Pakistan is (was) a huge proliferation risk because of their crazy nuclear scientist. But their leaders in control of the nuclear weapons are dependent on the west and not nearly as crazy as KJI, so proliferating nukes is not in their best interests - they have nothing to gain from it.
They have nothing further to gain from it... Once they were caught willingly selling items (or looking the other way while items were sold to Libya and N Korea), there's no incentive to do anything more.
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The Chinese do not have as much of a vested interest as you think - in fact, the Chinese are more than happy to let NK keep the U.S. in fits as long as it doesn't start a war. But what makes you think China will step in in time to prevent a war? Are we really going to rely on the Chinese to do what is in our best interests?
Come on.
You as well... have a look a little closer at the history between China and N Korea. China is just as likely to be a target, and if you also look at the geographical location: there are a ton of strategic areas within range of the Musudan missile.
BTW, it's not just the US that wants to get something done about N Korea: France, Germany and Russia are also within range. The problem is that an external response would be overtly provocative, but with China, they have direct incentive to do something about them. At this point I'd say an immediate concerted effort would be the best idea as right now, they haven't serialized production, and they haven't weaponized a nuclear device yet.
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