Sound familiar? Seriously, what is more likely... that Obama just plain hates coal and plans to bankrupt all coal companies or that he was simply talking about cleaning coal up?
Hates coal. He is a leftist. He follows the hippy adjenda. He has said that he will push for Kyoto treaty to be passed by congress. 47% of all US power currently comes from coal burning power plants. To clean them up you would have to replace them all. What can we replace them with? Wind? Solar? Nuclear? Natural gas? Wind and solar he has said is acceptable. Biden has said no to even clean coal. Obama has said no to nuclear. Hope most of the people in the US like to turn on their computers or have an alarm clock because in 2 years they wont have them anymore.
Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Friend Griff[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Hates coal. He is a leftist. He follows the hippy adjenda. He has said that he will push for Kyoto treaty to be passed by congress. 47% of all US power currently comes from coal burning power plants. To clean them up you would have to replace them all. What can we replace them with? Wind? Solar? Nuclear? Natural gas? Wind and solar he has said is acceptable. Biden has said no to even clean coal. Obama has said no to nuclear. Hope most of the people in the US like to turn on their computers or have an alarm clock because in 2 years they wont have them anymore.
Wind, Nuclear? Sure. It's not in-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound. You don't need to "replace them all" to clean them up. It is, however, stupid to just ignore the problem until it's too late and costs a shit-load more to fix. Many old coal plants already have exemptions from new emissions standards already imposed on new plants. The same will happen again. Not only that, the post above says that they will help coal plants (read: subsidize) to retrofit emission controls. They are talking about building NEW coal plants and forcing them to a higher standard, since eventually, they will need to be retrofitted too, like the old ones, at a higher cost then building the plant with them in place would've cost. Emission standards will only get more strict, whether it is a republican or democrat in power.
Wind, Nuclear? Sure. It's not in-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound. You don't need to "replace them all" to clean them up, but it's stupid to just ignore the problem until it's too late and costs a shit-load more to fix. Many old coal plants already have exemptions from new emissions standards already imposed on new plants. The same will happen again. Not only that, the post above says that they will help coal plants (read: subsidize) to retrofit emission controls. They are talking about building NEW coal plants and forcing them to a higher standard, since eventually, they will need to be retrofitted too, like the old ones, at a higher cost then building the plant with them. Emission standards will only get more strict, whether it is a republican or democrat in power.
The cost of upgrading will cause the price of electricity to skyrocket. Obama himself has said that. He has called for the exemptions to be removed. The way that the plants work currently is:
Coal plant built with an expected 40 year life.
Periodically they are shut down for maintenance and repair.
Currently they do not have to be upgraded.
Proposed is to treat that shutdown like it is a new plant coming on line.
If it is treated like a new plant then it will have ot have the "clean coal technology." That upgrade will shut the plants down for at least a year and cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Retrofitting equipment to meet new emissions standards is not new. The company most certainly bases their prices on costs of upgrades, future and present. Most successful large companies are not reactive. This is not an unexpected event. The fact that they may have to spend more may rise costs somewhat, but that's still less than waiting on it. Also, I can't say for sure, but I imagine the gov't will help out best it can to reduce costs to a specific company (subsidize). I worked at a nuclear plant where they shutdown 4 reactors (out of 8) for maintenance. That was over 10 years ago. 2 are just starting to come back up now (2 are being decommissioned permanently). The reason was they kept upgrading, then by the time the upgrades finished, they had to upgrade other things. It sucks, but is to be expected. Life goes on, energy prices are not dramatically affected.
Either way, why the fuck am I (a Canadian) the only one on here trying to justify this shit? Aren't all you guys saying Obama is going to win? Surely there must be some of your fellow citizens on this board who are more informed than I... If you are going to vote for the guy, you should have a passing interest in his policies...
Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Friend Griff[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
And all of that money spent on what has not been scientifically proven.
By the time the world gets to a state where global warming is smacking everyone in the face, it'll be too late to do anything about. Sure, the Russians may or may not have attacked the states during the cold war, but that sure as hell didn't stop you guys from spending shitloads of money stock piling nuclear weapons. It's called being proactive.
By the time the world gets to a state where global warming is smacking everyone in the face, it'll be too late to do anything about. Sure, the Russians may or may not have attacked the states during the cold war, but that sure as hell didn't stop you guys from spending shitloads of money stock piling nuclear weapons. It's called being proactive.
But unlike Global Warming, there was undeniable proof the Russians had the means to attack the US. There is not undeniable proof that global warming is man-made or that it can even be stopped by man.
It took one hell of a global warming event to move us from the ice age and there were no factories back then.
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Retrofitting equipment to meet new emissions standards is not new. The company most certainly bases their prices on costs of upgrades, future and present. Most successful large companies are not reactive. This is not an unexpected event. The fact that they may have to spend more may rise costs somewhat, but that's still less than waiting on it. Also, I can't say for sure, but I imagine the gov't will help out best it can to reduce costs to a specific company (subsidize). I worked at a nuclear plant where they shutdown 4 reactors (out of 8) for maintenance. That was over 10 years ago. 2 are just starting to come back up now (2 are being decommissioned permanently). The reason was they kept upgrading, then by the time the upgrades finished, they had to upgrade other things. It sucks, but is to be expected. Life goes on, energy prices are not dramatically affected.
Either way, why the fuck am I (a Canadian) the only one on here trying to justify this shit? Aren't all you guys saying Obama is going to win? Surely there must be some of your fellow citizens on this board who are more informed than I... If you are going to vote for the guy, you should have a passing interest in his policies...
Right. You are talking about shutting down 52% of all US power plants. The price of electricity will more than double. That is a very bad thing. Think of all of the skyrises and manufacturing facilities that already spend tens of millions a year in power costs now you are talking hundreds of million a year. That will drive up costs on manufactured goods making american made goods even more expensive compared to Chinese import crap.
By the time the world gets to a state where global warming is smacking everyone in the face, it'll be too late to do anything about. Sure, the Russians may or may not have attacked the states during the cold war, but that sure as hell didn't stop you guys from spending shitloads of money stock piling nuclear weapons. It's called being proactive.
The worls was hotter 800 years ago than it is now. Then we went in to a mini-ice age then it started warming up again 150 years ago. Could it just be a normal natural cycle that is 100% out of human control?
Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Friend Griff[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The worls was hotter 800 years ago than it is now. Then we went in to a mini-ice age then it started warming up again 150 years ago. Could it just be a normal natural cycle that is 100% out of human control?
Of course it can! But, the huge effective we've seen over the past 50 years would seem to indicate something else may be at play, so perhaps we should not discount that either. I think on here and on nissanclub, there have been a few posts about the "myths" of global warming and I discounted a number of them. Most included quoting a scientific paper out of context. Or trying to make science out to be something that it is not. A lot of science is built on theories that have been shown to describe reality well, even though there is no conclusive proof. I'm not sure what you are looking for... Green house gases trap radiation and warm up the surrounding atmosphere. We are putting a crazy amount of green house gases into the atmosphere. The earth is showing signs of climate change that correlate strongly with the levels of man-made green house gases. I trust the majority of scientists who believe climate change is a reality. The fact that the climate has changed so drastically, naturally, in the past should be an indication of how important this issue is. The earth's climate has, and will, change, why help it along?
Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Friend Griff[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Right. You are talking about shutting down 52% of all US power plants. The price of electricity will more than double. That is a very bad thing. Think of all of the skyrises and manufacturing facilities that already spend tens of millions a year in power costs now you are talking hundreds of million a year. That will drive up costs on manufactured goods making american made goods even more expensive compared to Chinese import crap.
So costs will raise 10 fold? Also, 52% of coal plants may need to be retrofitted, but this will happen over time. Also, those are varying degrees of upgrades. The costs will also be amortized over a couple of decades (or more) for most plants. The real answer here is to focus on nuclear power (it is the only real competitor to coal). I know you guys have a lot of coal, but you can sell it to China now instead.
So costs will raise 10 fold? Also, 52% of coal plants may need to be retrofitted, but this will happen over time. Also, those are varying degrees of upgrades. The costs will also be amortized over a couple of decades (or more) for most plants. The real answer here is to focus on nuclear power (it is the only real competitor to coal). I know you guys have a lot of coal, but you can sell it to China now instead.
Obama is talking about forcing those plants to do it in his first term not over an extended period of time. Obama has also said that he will allow no nuke plants to be built.
And if you are so concerned about global warming you should be saying DO NOT sell to china as they have no emmissions standards at all.
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