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Old 03-13-2008, 04:22 PM
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What's up.. gotta few questions... i have 99 gxe... i have been searching for the right speaker system... all i do know is factory sucks and i need more sound and bass.. i keep reading no rear speakers needed...so iam just gonna leave them be for now.. I know the factory radio has to go but i want speakers first... what brands do you guys recommend... got about $200 ( i have this certificate for best buy ....to put some speakers in the car...i have two 10" kickers yes i know they suck but you have to start somewhere and mtx crossover( oh yeah what the hell is that for) and a 2channel amp... no laughing guys i know it is sad.. but HELP ME..
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:07 PM
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I'd replace the head unit first and not the speakers. the factory speakers can handle more than the factory head unit puts out so the limiting factor is the HU, not the speakers. A Ferrari with Snow tires will outperform a Yugo with Pirelli ultra high performance tires. in a Piecemeal stereo setup(which is a good way of saving money and getting a setup you like), you always want to start with the lowest performer and upgrade that first. As for speakers, it really depends on what you want to listen to. not all equipment works well for all types of music. I, Myself prefer infinity Kappa speakers as they can usually be found for a relatively inexpensive price but still perform very well with more wattage (when driven by an external amp)

What size are the rear speakers? Most rears are the bass for a standard car stereo and they will perform pretty well if they are 6x9's driven by a decent head unit. They aren't the most important as they usually aren't designed as the primary speakers for mids or highs but are very important in providing the overall "sound shaping" in any car.

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Last edited by Specboy; 03-13-2008 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 03-14-2008, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Specboy View Post
Most rears are the bass for a standard car stereo and they will perform pretty well if they are 6x9's driven by a decent head unit. They aren't the most important as they usually aren't designed as the primary speakers for mids or highs but are very important in providing the overall "sound shaping" in any car.
Couldn't agree more. Don't neglect the rear speakers. To get a quality, full, overall sound, you need rear speakers (even stock is better than nothing, unless they are blown), to get the sound of the "right speaker system".

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Originally Posted by Nissanlover123 View Post
got about $200 ( i have this certificate for best buy ....to put some speakers in the car
Now I'm not sure if you have $200, PLUS a certificate for Best Buy to put speakers in, OR if you have a $200 certificate for Best Buy to put speakers in. But to get a halfway decent system setup, you are at least looking at around $700, that being around the cheapest price for a decent setup. A full system is not the cheapest upgrade in the world. As Specboy mentioned, I would start with replacing the radio, or replace the radio and the speakers at the same time. The stock radio is underpowered as Specboy mentioned, but when installing a aftermarket radio with stock speakers, the speakers tend to go fairly quick. Most aftermarket radios put out 50 watts to each speaker, where most stock radios put out around 15-20 watts per speaker. To install a radio your looking at around $150, at the cheapest. The cheapest, halfway decent radio you could get would be around $100, and since you have the stock radio in your car, you are going to need the parts to put it in as well. The parts needed are the dash kit, the harness, and a possible antenna adapter.

As far as upgrading the speakers, I would recommend Polk, or Infinity as Specboy mentioned. Either are very good choices. Replacing all four speakers will give you a better overall sound.

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Originally Posted by Nissanlover123 View Post
i have two 10" kickers yes i know they suck but you have to start somewhere
Don't even worry about subs until you get a aftermarket radio. You need RCA outs, which the stock radio doesn't have. You could get a module that would give you RCA outs with a stock radio, but the money you would pay for that you could just get a aftermarket radio. You need RCA's and a amp install kit to install your subs, correctly. And no offense, but yes KICKER SUCKS, I'm sure many people will beg to differ, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with there products. I have reason for my hate.

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Originally Posted by Nissanlover123 View Post
and mtx crossover( oh yeah what the hell is that for)
A crossover is usually for a component system. A component system being a speaker setup with a seperate "sub", and tweeter. To wire a component system correctly the crossover is neccessary.

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Originally Posted by Nissanlover123 View Post
and a 2channel amp.
The two channel amp can be used to power your subs. And as I mentioned above, you need the RCA's and amp install kit to install your 2 channel amp and subwoofers, and you will have all the parts needed to install a system in your car (If you have a aftermarket radio).

Overall, start with replacing the radio. Getting a new deck will expand your options when upgrading in the future. Then move to the speakers, because eventually you are going to have too, if you don't already want too. After the overall sound is decent, then worry about the bass. You want your speakers to be used mainly for your highs and mids, and you want your subs to be used for strictly bass. To complete you setup, adding a 4 channel amplifier to your speakers will give you the clear, crisp sound from your speakers, and will match your bass so the highs and mids won't be drown by the bass from the subs.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Specboy View Post
I'd replace the head unit first and not the speakers. the factory speakers can handle more than the factory head unit puts out so the limiting factor is the HU, not the speakers. A Ferrari with Snow tires will outperform a Yugo with Pirelli ultra high performance tires. in a Piecemeal stereo setup(which is a good way of saving money and getting a setup you like), you always want to start with the lowest performer and upgrade that first. As for speakers, it really depends on what you want to listen to. not all equipment works well for all types of music. I, Myself prefer infinity Kappa speakers as they can usually be found for a relatively inexpensive price but still perform very well with more wattage (when driven by an external amp)

What size are the rear speakers? Most rears are the bass for a standard car stereo and they will perform pretty well if they are 6x9's driven by a decent head unit. They aren't the most important as they usually aren't designed as the primary speakers for mids or highs but are very important in providing the overall "sound shaping" in any car.

~SB
Be careful just replacing the HU, you may need to look at the resistance of the oem speakrs as they may not be compatible with aftermarket HU's. I believe many Alti's have 2ohm speakers, this can destroy your headunits internal amplifier quickly.

For a true audiophile the rears should either be eliminated or turned down EXTREMELY low, you don't want them to pull away from your front stage. It also doesn't take much from them for your rear passengers to get some sound. Any true audiophile would scrap rears and either ONLY use midbass's crossed low below 250hz or nothing at all in the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCee View Post
Couldn't agree more. Don't neglect the rear speakers. To get a quality, full, overall sound, you need rear speakers (even stock is better than nothing, unless they are blown), to get the sound of the "right speaker system".
Quality sound is subjective, however in 90% of cases and in A LOT of cars I've worked on or have listened to, a solid front stage is all you need when properly implemented the entire car will sound amazing.


Quote:
Now I'm not sure if you have $200, PLUS a certificate for Best Buy to put speakers in, OR if you have a $200 certificate for Best Buy to put speakers in. But to get a halfway decent system setup, you are at least looking at around $700, that being around the cheapest price for a decent setup. A full system is not the cheapest upgrade in the world. As Specboy mentioned, I would start with replacing the radio, or replace the radio and the speakers at the same time. The stock radio is underpowered as Specboy mentioned, but when installing a aftermarket radio with stock speakers, the speakers tend to go fairly quick. Most aftermarket radios put out 50 watts to each speaker, where most stock radios put out around 15-20 watts per speaker. To install a radio your looking at around $150, at the cheapest. The cheapest, halfway decent radio you could get would be around $100, and since you have the stock radio in your car, you are going to need the parts to put it in as well. The parts needed are the dash kit, the harness, and a possible antenna adapter.
I've got a system in my car, fully active, 2 amps, head unit sub and amp the total cost was less than $900. You just have to find the right deals at the right time and know where to look. This system is by no means the BEST, but is not something you will be able to put together at any retail store, and 90% of the retail stores wouldn't know how to setup an active setup either ;)

Quote:
As far as upgrading the speakers, I would recommend Polk, or Infinity as Specboy mentioned. Either are very good choices. Replacing all four speakers will give you a better overall sound.
Speakers are also still subjective, your best bet is to go to a shop, and listen to everything they have on a sound board. Focus more on the detail and how it sounds vs how much bass you hear, it will be slightly difficult to determine the bass response from the speakrs in a wall vs in the vehicle. You should have a pretty good idea after some listening though.


Quote:
Don't even worry about subs until you get a aftermarket radio. You need RCA outs, which the stock radio doesn't have. You could get a module that would give you RCA outs with a stock radio, but the money you would pay for that you could just get a aftermarket radio. You need RCA's and a amp install kit to install your subs, correctly. And no offense, but yes KICKER SUCKS, I'm sure many people will beg to differ, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with there products. I have reason for my hate.
You do not NEED rca outs to put an amplifier and subwoofer in, a LOC is al that is needed (line-output converter). A converter is $10 an aftermarket radio that is worthwhile will be $150, big difference. KICKER sucks? That is a pretty bold statement. It could be that your experiences with them are bad, but I have 2 lil 8" kicker solo baric S8C's sitting my basement that would probably change your mind. 10 year old speakers do that sometimes

Quote:
A crossover is usually for a component system. A component system being a speaker setup with a seperate "sub", and tweeter. To wire a component system correctly the crossover is neccessary.
Crossovers SHOULD be used for any division of frequencies to multiple speaker sets. IE Tweets / midbass in a component set or running active through a 3 way crossover, an active capable head unit, or active capable amp (which has bandpass on one set of the outputs, typically the rear). If you are moving into an active setup, an external crossover is not necessary, nor is a passive crossover that comes with a component set. You can use the crossovers from an active capable headunit running to 4 channels of amplification (for 2 way active). Crossovers in a standard system are usually high pass for interior front and rear speakers, and low pass for a subwoofer system.


Quote:
The two channel amp can be used to power your subs. And as I mentioned above, you need the RCA's and amp install kit to install your 2 channel amp and subwoofers, and you will have all the parts needed to install a system in your car (If you have a aftermarket radio).
Again, it can be done without an aftermarket radio.

Quote:
Overall, start with replacing the radio. Getting a new deck will expand your options when upgrading in the future. Then move to the speakers, because eventually you are going to have too, if you don't already want too. After the overall sound is decent, then worry about the bass. You want your speakers to be used mainly for your highs and mids, and you want your subs to be used for strictly bass. To complete you setup, adding a 4 channel amplifier to your speakers will give you the clear, crisp sound from your speakers, and will match your bass so the highs and mids won't be drown by the bass from the subs.
I agree that a new radio is the first step, but do not forget to check the resistance of the oem speakers first. It would stink to replace your oem hu with one that costs a good amount of money only to blow the internal amplifier. A 4 channel amp can be utilized in many ways. A cost effective step would be to use the headunit to power your oem rear speakers, and use a 4 channel amp to run the fronts, and bridged the rear outputs to a subwoofer.

Hope that helps.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
Be careful just replacing the HU, you may need to look at the resistance of the oem speakrs as they may not be compatible with aftermarket HU's. I believe many Alti's have 2ohm speakers, this can destroy your headunits internal amplifier quickly.
As far as 2nd Gen. Alt's, the speakers are 4ohm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
For a true audiophile the rears should either be eliminated or turned down EXTREMELY low, you don't want them to pull away from your front stage. It also doesn't take much from them for your rear passengers to get some sound. Any true audiophile would scrap rears and either ONLY use midbass's crossed low below 250hz or nothing at all in the rear.
Not true at all. I guess you can say I'ma "true audiophile", I have a COMPLETE setup in my car. One way to compensate for what you are saying is you simply make your front speakers better than your rear speakers. In my car, I have Polk Momo's in the front, and the regular Polk 6 1/2's (db651) in the rear, all powered by a 4 channel, and let me tell you the overall acoustics in my car is unbelievable. The best setup I've ever heard (and yes, I'm a Circuit City car audio installer, I've heard my fair share) was a complete Infinity setup, and it had 6 1/2's all they way around, didn't even have a component in the front, and the sound quality was amazing. I've also heard what you are suggesting, a decent setup with no rear speakers, including in my car. When I blew my SHIITY Kicker's (have had the Polk's in for a while now, not one problem) the rear speakers went first. I was running only the front speakers, with a 2500W audiobahn amp, and a audiobahn "15, front speakers still powered by the 4 channel. Sounds like the setup is missing something, because it is. When I installed the new Polk speaker setup, the difference was incredible. Not using your speakers at all, or underpowering your rear speakers, neglects your overall sound and range of your setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
Quality sound is subjective, however in 90% of cases and in A LOT of cars I've worked on or have listened to, a solid front stage is all you need when properly implemented the entire car will sound amazing.
You can get a decent sound with only front speakers, but as I mentioned above, if you added the rear speakers to the setup, the difference would speaker for itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
I've got a system in my car, fully active, 2 amps, head unit sub and amp the total cost was less than $900. You just have to find the right deals at the right time and know where to look. This system is by no means the BEST, but is not something you will be able to put together at any retail store, and 90% of the retail stores wouldn't know how to setup an active setup either
First off, I originally stated to get a halfway decent system setup, you are at least looking at around $700. You said you got your setup for less than $900, but what's less than $900? "Less than $900 to me is still more than I originally mentioned. But let's brake some pricing down. As you mentioned below, "an aftermarket radio that is worthwhile will be $150." Parts to install, $50. Decent amplifier, $250-300. Decent sub's, at least $150 a piece, or get a decent loaded enclosure setup for around $300-350. RCA's that are worth buying, $50. Amp install kit, $50-$100, maybe even more, depending on the setup. New speakers that are decent, $200 at the CHEAPEST to replace all four. 4 channel amp, anywhere from $200-$300, which will also need more RCA's, and another amp install kit. Now that is a FULL SYSTEM SETUP. Now let's add this all up, shall we? I added all the cheapest prices I mentioned, didn't even including the pricing for the additional RCA's and amp install kit for the 4 channel, and it came out to be $1250. Now, you definitely have to look for the rights deals as you said, but you could get a decent setup in a store. Granted, it would be a little more expensive, versus looking on ebay and getting 4000 Watt amps for $300, but it definitely can be done. Depends on where you go, and where you look, just like you mentioned. I work in a retail store, Circuit City as I stated above, GUARANTEE I know how to "setup an active setup". We have done a few COMPLETE, fully active systems, that will hurt some feelings, whether the customer brought us the products, or bought them from our store. Now I wouldn't recommend to necessarily buy your setup from Circuit City, but as far as installing it in a vehicle, recommending the right steps to take, tuning the sound to match your car, and setting it up to fit the sound quality wanted by the customer, I personally, and my fellow co-workers are very capable of that, probably better than the average, because one of the top ranked installers in the Circuit City company works in my store and is my supervisor (MECP certified GOLD, 3rd, and highest level), who do you think yours truely learned from? Don't underplay retail. They may not have what you are looking for, but as far as installers, some of the best installers you will ever come across work in retail. Just to give an example of my boys work, he did a full setup and fiberglassing in AI's Lambo, and he has pics to prove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
Speakers are also still subjective, your best bet is to go to a shop, and listen to everything they have on a sound board. Focus more on the detail and how it sounds vs how much bass you hear, it will be slightly difficult to determine the bass response from the speakrs in a wall vs in the vehicle. You should have a pretty good idea after some listening though.
Hold up, didn't you just say "but is not something you will be able to put together at any retail store, and 90% of the retail stores wouldn't know how to setup an active setup either"?
All retail stores have soundboards, including mine. You suggesting to go somewhere that you just said wouldn't be able to put together a decent setup, and wouldn't know how to setup an active setup either. And even if you go to a "mom-and-pop" shop, you are still looking at the same type of products, forms of setups, and organization. And I would know because we got some very good "mom-and-pop" shops around me, including a few which some of my friends actually work for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
You do not NEED rca outs to put an amplifier and subwoofer in, a LOC is al that is needed (line-output converter). A converter is $10 an aftermarket radio that is worthwhile will be $150, big difference.
Didn't I say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCee View Post
You could get a module that would give you RCA outs with a stock radio.
Excuse me, I didn't say LOC. And by the way, I've never seen a LOC cheaper than $30, you may be able to find it cheaper, but I have yet to see it. We sell them in the Circuit for $50. But the pre-out power on a LOC, cannot compare to a pre-out from a aftermarket radio. STOCK RADIO's SUCK. Why would you want to keep your stock radio with a LOC? You can get up to a 8V preout with a aftermarket radio (Eclipse), but most have around 4V-5V pre-outs. And yes, the pre-out voltage does matter when you are install a system setup, the pre-out determines how much you can turn your gain up on your amplifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
KICKER sucks? That is a pretty bold statement. It could be that your experiences with them are bad, but I have 2 lil 8" kicker solo baric S8C's sitting my basement that would probably change your mind. 10 year old speakers do that sometimes
Yea, I said it, KICKER SUCKS. I had a complete Kicker setup in my car, originally. CVX "12 Loaded Enclosure, 1000W Kicker Mono block, 350.4 Kicker 4 channel, and KS 6 1/2's all the way around. Blew four subs in the matter of around 6 months, and blew all the speakers except 1. And yes, the setup was set to PERFECTION, me and my supervisor did it all, even called the kicker tech, and what we explain to him he said it was "setup to perfection, there should be know problems." But in the process of being on the phone with him, he kinda slipped up and said "Kicker subs are weak", but he tried to compensate for it, and rephrase what he said. That says it all right there bro. **** KICKER. And not to mention, ever since I got the Kicker out of my car, I've had no problems. I'm still running the 4 channel though (which I plan on replacing very soon), and that is really the only downfall in my system, I still have Kicker in my car. We carry Kicker, I sell Kicker all day at the Circuit. Granted, they do have decent sounding products, that's basically what sold me on mine (and we have accommodation pricing). But as for quality, I'm not impressed. I'm not the only person who's had there problems with Kicker, I've had customer's come back to my store with Kicker setups experience the same problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
4 channel amp can be utilized in many ways. A cost effective step would be to use the headunit to power your oem rear speakers, and use a 4 channel amp to run the fronts, and bridged the rear outputs to a subwoofer.
I hope I read this wrong, and you aren't suggesting to amp stock speakers, because if you are an installer, you definitely should know better than to amp stock speakers, that is a BIG no-no. Might as well sentence your stock speakers to death if you plan on that. Look man, I respect your input on everything, and I can tell you have a knowledge on your car audio. But don't try to break my post down, comment on everything I stated opposingly, and suggest that everything I posted is either wrong, or was incorrect in one way or another, because that's what I got from your post.

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Old 03-14-2008, 01:24 PM
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First off my comments are strictly for information not to proove anyone is wrong or right, mainly to provide knowledge. If you don't want to hear it no problem. We can agree to disagree. I would definately LOVE to meet up with you sometime though, we can listen to each others systems etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeCee View Post
Not true at all. I guess you can say I'ma "true audiophile", I have a COMPLETE setup in my car. One way to compensate for what you are saying is you simply make your front speakers better than your rear speakers. In my car, I have Polk Momo's in the front, and the regular Polk 6 1/2's (db651) in the rear, all powered by a 4 channel, and let me tell you the overall acoustics in my car is unbelievable. The best setup I've ever heard (and yes, I'm a Circuit City car audio installer, I've heard my fair share) was a complete Infinity setup, and it had 6 1/2's all they way around, didn't even have a component in the front, and the sound quality was amazing. I've also heard what you are suggesting, a decent setup with no rear speakers, including in my car. When I blew my SHIITY Kicker's (have had the Polk's in for a while now, not one problem) the rear speakers went first. I was running only the front speakers, with a 2500W audiobahn amp, and a audiobahn "15, front speakers still powered by the 4 channel. Sounds like the setup is missing something, because it is. When I installed the new Polk speaker setup, the difference was incredible. Not using your speakers at all, or underpowering your rear speakers, neglects your overall sound and range of your setup.
A complete setup doesn't make you an audiophile and an oem setup doesnt make you an audiophile either. Heck even someone with an OEM setup can be an audiophile, regardless of their equipment. Let me ask you though, how many cars have you seen competing in SQ competitions utilize coaxials? The answer is none. I have no doubt that you have a great sounding setup, however what type of systems have you heard? Have you heard a properly setup active front stage? I would like you to simply have a listen to some setups like that, even mine. Speakers do not blow out due to being shitty, they typically blow out due to misuse, unless they are defective. How many brands have you heard outside of what is mainstream? IE: DLS, Dynaudio, Morel, Rainbow, Hertz, etc etc? Many of those brands would be superior to what you are running now, you would notice even more nuances in your music that you had been missing with the polks. Different drivers reproduce music differently.


Quote:
You can get a decent sound with only front speakers, but as I mentioned above, if you added the rear speakers to the setup, the difference would speaker for itself.
Rear speakers that only the rear passengers hear are wonderful no doubt. The idea here is to setup a "stage" in your car. The illussion of music up front and centered is ideal. Rear fill can destroy that staging.


Quote:
"an aftermarket radio that is worthwhile will be $150." Parts to install, $50. Decent amplifier, $250-300. Decent sub's, at least $150 a piece, or get a decent loaded enclosure setup for around $300-350. RCA's that are worth buying, $50. Amp install kit, $50-$100, maybe even more, depending on the setup. New speakers that are decent, $200 at the CHEAPEST to replace all four. 4 channel amp, anywhere from $200-$300, which will also need more RCA's, and another amp install kit. .......
I have absolutely NO doubt of your installation work, and setting up to the customers ear. When you enter an ICE forum you are going to get a lot of opinions and we all know they are like a'holes.


I'm not gonna argue with you here on this but the products I got for the prices are as follows:

Fiberglass 12" box
1200rms subwoofer
Alpine 9887
CDT ES600 midbass, running active
Blaupunkt Velocity VC100's also ran active
2 10 year old MTX amps, 2300x and 4300x
All my wiring was roughly 80/90.

I'm not counting all of the deadening I have in my car here though.

I completely agree with you on installers from mom and pop stores or even garage installers.



Quote:
All retail stores have soundboards, including mine. You suggesting to go somewhere that you just said wouldn't be able to put together a decent setup, and wouldn't know how to setup an active setup either. And even if you go to a "mom-and-pop" shop, you are still looking at the same type of products, forms of setups, and organization. And I would know because we got some very good "mom-and-pop" shops around me, including a few which some of my friends actually work for.
Thats not my point, I suggested he go to listen at the speakers on the sound boards so that he can make a good solid decision of what sound good to him.

Quote:
Excuse me, I didn't say LOC. And by the way, I've never seen a LOC cheaper than $30, you may be able to find it cheaper, but I have yet to see it. We sell them in the Circuit for $50. But the pre-out power on a LOC, cannot compare to a pre-out from a aftermarket radio. STOCK RADIO's SUCK. Why would you want to keep your stock radio with a LOC? You can get up to a 8V preout with a aftermarket radio (Eclipse), but most have around 4V-5V pre-outs. And yes, the pre-out voltage does matter when you are install a system setup, the pre-out determines how much you can turn your gain up on your amplifier.
Voltage is voltage how you get it for your sub is not a big factor, the signal you get from an oem radio is definately not as good as an aftermarket radio with rca outs. There are plenty of OEM radios out there that cannot be removed due to integration with other parts of the car, they either have to be kept IN the car or not removed at all.

Preout voltage from a loc, like a navone loc can be adjusted, and it will provide a strong signal.

As for those aftermarket decks, have you ever tested the voltage of those headunits? None of them will provide the rated voltage even at full volume, gauranteed.


Quote:
Yea, I said it, KICKER SUCKS. I had a complete Kicker setup in my car, originally. CVX "12 Loaded Enclosure, 1000W Kicker Mono block, 350.4 Kicker 4 channel, and KS 6 1/2's all the way around. Blew four subs in the matter of around 6 months, and blew all the speakers except 1. And yes, the setup was set to PERFECTION, me and my supervisor did it all, even called the kicker tech, and what we explain to him he said it was "setup to perfection, there should be know problems." But in the process of being on the phone with him, he kinda slipped up and said "Kicker subs are weak", but he tried to compensate for it, and rephrase what he said. That says it all right there bro. **** KICKER. And not to mention, ever since I got the Kicker out of my car, I've had no problems. I'm still running the 4 channel though (which I plan on replacing very soon), and that is really the only downfall in my system, I still have Kicker in my car. We carry Kicker, I sell Kicker all day at the Circuit. Granted, they do have decent sounding products, that's basically what sold me on mine (and we have accommodation pricing). But as for quality, I'm not impressed. I'm not the only person who's had there problems with Kicker, I've had customer's come back to my store with Kicker setups experience the same problems.
With your experience with kicker, I would hate them too! No duobt about it.


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I hope I read this wrong, and you aren't suggesting to amp stock speakers, because if you are an installer, you definitely should know better than to amp stock speakers, that is a BIG no-no. Might as well sentence your stock speakers to death if you plan on that. Look man, I respect your input on everything, and I can tell you have a knowledge on your car audio. But don't try to break my post down, comment on everything I stated opposingly, and suggest that everything I posted is either wrong, or was incorrect in one way or another, because that's what I got from your post.
What I meant to say was front aftermarket speakers powered by the front channels of teh amp, and rear oem speakers powered by the hu, with the rear channels of the amp powering a sub.


Like I said before, I am not here to argue, only give my opinion. I also try to give people as much knowledge as they can handle on the topic, whether they are set in their ways or willing to learn is up to them. If you feel I am wrong no problem there either. I don't care. I am happy with what I have learned an where I am at with my car right now.

I am more than happy to shoot the shit and chat if you like im me on AIM, nizzy81 we can discuss some more. I am again, in no way shape or form trying to say you don't know anything or anything like that. I am simply sharing my opinions and providing information that I have gathered over 12+ years.

Last edited by nismos14; 03-14-2008 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:12 PM
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First off my comments are strictly for information not to proove anyone is wrong or right, mainly to provide knowledge.
Exactly my fellow Jerz resident. That's why I feel you should have posted a post regarding information, not quoting me on everything, and commenting on what I said.

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If you don't want to hear it no problem. We can agree to disagree.
Agreed.

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I would definately LOVE to meet up with you sometime though, we can listen to each others systems etc.
That actually could be a good idea. I wouldn't mind that one bit.

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A complete setup doesn't make you an audiophile and an oem setup doesnt make you an audiophile either. Heck even someone with an OEM setup can be an audiophile, regardless of their equipment.
Very true. You can have no speakers in your car, and be a audiophile. BUT, I work with this all day, spend much time and money investing in perfecting my setup, and I think that DEFINITELY qualifies me as a audiophile.

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Let me ask you though, how many cars have you seen competing in SQ competitions utilize coaxials? The answer is none. I have no doubt that you have a great sounding setup, however what type of systems have you heard? Have you heard a properly setup active front stage?
I've heard many different types of setups, setups strictly for competiton, setups for overall sound quality (pretty much what I go for), and regular setups just to bring better sound into a vehicle. Circuit City acutally has a sound competiton at some stores, which we are hoping to bring to ours this summer. I have went to one Circuit City competition, where I heard such a wide variety of setups and systems, including when my store location opened, they brought the Kicker and MTX sound vehicles for demonstration.

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I would like you to simply have a listen to some setups like that, even mine.
As I mentioned above, I've heard my fair share of variety, and many different forms of setups. Also as I mentioned above, I would have no problem hearing your system. I actually want too, and I would like you to hear mine, vice versa.

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Speakers do not blow out due to being shitty, they typically blow out due to misuse, unless they are defective.
Very true. But of course there are situations where speakers and subs do actually blow due to being shitty, and I think you know that (overpowering, underpowering, etc.). As for my case, EVERY sub was broken in properly, even overly broken in after the first two subs went, I actually took a little over 2-3 weeks to break in the last 2 subs, just to make sure nothing would go wrong. Well, it still blew. None of the Kicker subs lasted over a month, after being reasonably powered, not missued, or overly used. I've had the Audiobahn "15 in my car since early July, and it's still knocking at it's full potential. No problems, knock on wood.

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How many brands have you heard outside of what is mainstream? IE: DLS, Dynaudio, Morel, Rainbow, Hertz, etc etc?
I've heard so many different brands, man. Power Acoustic, Memphis, American Bass, etc. The only brand I heard that you mentioned though is Dynaudio.

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Many of those brands would be superior to what you are running now
No need to downplay the system, you can always do better. I've investing much money, probably over $6000 (overall for everything) getting my system to where I want it to be. Working with this stuff makes you very picky on what kind of sound you want, and how you want your system setup, as I am sure you know dealing with car audio. You can always do better, as I am sure you can too.

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Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
you would notice even more nuances in your music that you had been missing with the polks. Different drivers reproduce music differently.
That is also definitely true. But as for right now, the Polk's are giving me the sound I want, and I have close to the setup I am/was aiming for right now.

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Rear speakers that only the rear passengers hear are wonderful no doubt. The idea here is to setup a "stage" in your car. The illussion of music up front and centered is ideal. Rear fill can destroy that staging.
Not neccessarily. The options of tuning and setting your music on your deck can change that a lot. As for me, I have a JVC double-din (avx-800), which has many options for the surround sound, equalizer, and acoustic setups. It even break's it down to the speaker size in your car (you can choose small, large, extralarge for whatever speaker you want) to get that perfected sound that you want. Depending on the deck, the options vary. As far as the options on my unit, it has one of the broadest options I have ever seen on a unit. If you aren't familiar with the unit, you probably would be pleasantly surprised.

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I have absolutely NO doubt of your installation work, and setting up to the customers ear. When you enter an ICE forum you are going to get a lot of opinions and we all know they are like a'holes.
Haha, everyone has them, as you, and me. As you said, sound is subjective, it varies on the ear. BUT, mostly everyone has an idea of what a good sound is, as I'm sure me and you both have. We can agree to disagree as you mentioned.

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I'm not gonna argue with you here on this but the products I got for the prices are as follows:

Fiberglass 12" box
1200rms subwoofer
Alpine 9887
CDT ES600 midbass, running active
Blaupunkt Velocity VC100's also ran active
2 10 year old MTX amps, 2300x and 4300x
All my wiring was roughly 80/90.
Not trying to argue my brotha. Simply gave my opinion on his sitution, as did you. The fact is when you gave your opinion, you happen to break down my post, and in my eyes, opposingly.

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I completely agree with you on installers from mom and pop stores or even garage installers.
Thats not my point, I suggested he go to listen at the speakers on the sound boards so that he can make a good solid decision of what sound good to him.
True, I agree with that, but that's not really how you worded it in your first post.

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Voltage is voltage how you get it for your sub is not a big factor, the signal you get from an oem radio is definately not as good as an aftermarket radio with rca outs. There are plenty of OEM radios out there that cannot be removed due to integration with other parts of the car, they either have to be kept IN the car or not removed at all.
Yes, that is very true. But as for his case, he can swap out the stock radio for a reasonable price, not work about an expensive dash kit (Like a Benz or a Taurus), or a intergrated harness (Like GM's with OnStar and door chimes).

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Preout voltage from a loc, like a navone loc can be adjusted, and it will provide a strong signal.
True, but you know it still doesn't compare to a aftermarket radio. You even stated that above.

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As for those aftermarket decks, have you ever tested the voltage of those headunits? None of them will provide the rated voltage even at full volume, gauranteed.
Oh, no doubt. Have you ever tested the voltage on a LOC? My first deck I put in my car was a Eclipse CD4000, 5V pre-out, listed. We tested it in the "kicker blowing" process, because that was one of the things the Kicker tech recommended too do. It was getting around 4V.

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With your experience with kicker, I would hate them too! No duobt about it.
Thank you, lol.

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What I meant to say was front aftermarket speakers powered by the front channels of teh amp, and rear oem speakers powered by the hu, with the rear channels of the amp powering a sub.
Oh ok, but still in that case, if you are planning on having the same amp power you speakers and your subs, you would need a high wattage amp to give appropriate power to the subs. I say go with two different amps, my opinion.

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Like I said before, I am not here to argue, only give my opinion.
All of our posts are based on opinion bro, lol.

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Originally Posted by nismos14 View Post
I also try to give people as much knowledge as they can handle on the topic, whether they are set in their ways or willing to learn is up to them. If you feel I am wrong no problem there either. I don't care. I am happy with what I have learned an wher I am at with my car right now.
Obiviously it's the same over here bro.

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I am more than happy to shoot the shit and chat if you like im me on AIM, nizzy81 we can discuss some more. I am again, in no way shape or form trying to say you don't know anything or anything like that. I am simply sharing my opinions and providing information that I have gathered over 12+ years.
I hear that. Bad news though, I have no AIM lol. Definitely hit me up on the PM or email though, e-mail beeceezy87@yahoo.com. Get at me man.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:28 PM
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I hear that. Bad news though, I have no AIM lol. Definitely hit me up on the PM or email though, e-mail beeceezy87@yahoo.com. Get at me man.
Lol no prob, where abouts in NJ are you? We should try to get a mini meet going with a bunch of us Altima audio guys. I think there is a thread for a meet over at the "other forum". I'll keep you posted on that.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:26 PM
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I'm in Cumberland County. How about you? And one of my boys has a 2001 Altima that's has a decent amount of shit done too it, his audio situation is alright though, nothing drastic. I know of a couple Altima's around me that have some shit done though, most are 3rd Gen. Haven't seen to many 2nd Gen. "hooked up", or any that you could really say are looking good at least. Me and my boy that I mentioned above are the only 2 people around me that I know of with a decent 2nd Gen. But around me every has Honda's, and there's Honda meets everywhere. We need a Nissan one, lol. One of my other boys has a Maxima that he completely rebulit from the ground up, I guess you could say it's a show car. He's trying to put together a Nissan car club and shit around here.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:22 PM
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I'm in middlesex co.

I've got a few buddies somewhat close with Alti's. I used to own a 4th gen Max.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:10 PM
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O aight true. But yea, we definitely should try to put something together.
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:05 AM
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Former somerset county here. Now in VT. Raised in Warren Twp. and I worked in S. Plainfield right on hadley Rd behind the Mdlsx Mall. Family's still in Warren.

~SB
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:27 AM
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Haha, I used to work in south plainfield too, at the subway on Oak Tree road. Small world.
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